yo AD tell me about jap-eng dictionaries

Discussion in 'Spamalot - nsfw' started by Agrul, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    welp

    i think ive learned all there is to learn here

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  2. Grandasaur Egg

    Grandasaur Egg Groor.

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    Thread title is racist
     
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  3. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    no AD stands for Active Directory so its ok
     
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  4. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    @AgelessDrifter where does one start with learning to read Japanese? My wife and I both want to carve out like 20 minutes a day for it and see if we can make it stick.

    from what I've read it seems like the order of operations here would be:

    1. Learn hiragana
    2. Learn to write/type hiragana
    3. Learn katakana
    4. Learn to write/type katakana
    5. Maybe start learning kanji
    6. Start learning vocabulary
    7. Start learning grammar

    is that more or less correct?
     
  5. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Yeah I think that more or less makes sense; I think you nailed the most important thing which is deciding early on to learn the character systems. Don’t break your brain trying to take in all the kanji at the beginning—I still have certain fairly basic stuff I forget how to pronounce (can usually narrow it down to one of two things, but).

    Obviously 7 is impossible without 6 but I would say that should be closer to a single item; like learn a grammar point and a few vocab words to practice it with. And it’s not a bad idea to pair 5 with 6: just don’t let 5 slow you down on 6, obviously.

    This site is a terrific free resource for grammar
    http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

    Anki is also great for memorizing vocab/kanji, but it’s not free for iPhone. If you’re on your computer a lot or have android I’d suggest it, though. I shelled out for the iPhone version and don’t regret it.

    Duo is also really not half bad for Japanese at this point but I dunno what it would be like to try it from scratch on there.
     
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  6. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    what kind of sadist made up that language lol
     
  7. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Personally as far as kanji goes I spent a long time learning full words and worked backward to individual characters. I think most people go the opposite route, but I figure you have to have vocab to speak anyway and as long as you’re picking it up why not try to get the kanji exposure
     
  8. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Nani the fuck did you just fucking iimasu about watashi, you chiisai bitch desuka? Watashi'll have anata know that watashi graduated top of my class in Nihongo 3, and watashi've been involved in iroirona Nihongo tutoring sessions, and watashi have over sanbyaku perfect test scores. Watashi am trained in kanji, and watashi is the top letter writer in all of southern California. Anata are nothing to watashi but just another weeaboo. Watashi will korosu anata the fuck out with vocabulary the likes of which has neber meen mimasu'd before on this continent, mark watashino fucking words. Anata thinks that anata can get away with hanashimasing that kuso to watashi over the intaaneto? Omou again, fucker. As we hanashimasu, watashi am contacting watashino secret netto of otakus accross the USA, and anatano IP is being traced right now so you better junbishimasu for the ame, ujimushi. The ame that korosu's the pathetic chiisai thing anata calls anatano life. You're fucking shinimashita'd, akachan."
     
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  9. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    I'm convinced they took the 90's Sega approach and just kept adding shit on to fill various needs.

    [​IMG]

    thanks

    Yeah, I'm going to start with just the alphabets so my brain doesn't explode.

    interesting how their sentence structure is subject-object-verb
     
  10. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Their grammar is bananas, frankly, but I kind of like that about it
     
  11. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    SOV is probably the most common ordering in terms of sheer frequency, but a point Big Tae Kim makes early on is that japanese word ordering is much weirder than this (well, he doesn't call it weird, but i think it's weird) -- that <Verb> is a complete japanese sentence, that only Verb is required (& even it may not appear explicitly, since, for state-of-being, it is often left implied), and that the only universal ordering requirement is that Verb comes at the end of a complete sentence. otherwise particles tell you what grammatical role other words are supposed to play, and that substitutes for a lot of the information word order would normally express
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  12. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    @Utumno it's clear where this is going plz change the tzt forum interface language to weeb language & change all tzt logos to kacer's bouncing anime girl ty ty
     
  13. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    i didnt start Duo from scratch exactly (had done one round through Remembering the Kanji, and half-assed Memrise for a while first), but my experience has been that it is fantastic for vocabulary (current course has ~5,000 unique words in it, & a large proportion of that is kanji, though that is w/ counting only slightly different words as distinct), and for practicing most grammatical constructions (it seems to cover almost everything Tae Kim covers), but that it does a very poor job, especially in the more recently added lessons, explaining the grammar (in a lot of newer lessons it has, uh, just no explanations whatsoever, & it very commonly just kind of throws a new construction and several new vocabulary words at you out of the blue in the middle of an example sentence), so in those cases you generally need to hope someone has provided an explanation in the Duo Discussion or do some of your own extra work looking up the grammar in a separate resource

    also ive seen a bunch of people whining that Duo was teaching them kanji too early. that has not been my experience, but i am not sure how true it is, since that may be the one thing i was sort of accustomed to the pain of (from RTK/Memrise) before beginning Duo. also sometimes the more recently added Duo content jumps comically in difficulty and you just end up memorizing sentences rather than really learning; that's rare enough that it's not a deal-breaker but is super frustrating when it does happen

    i will say i think you learn more deeply on Duo if you insist on typing rather than using Word Bank, but i found Word Bank useful too before i realized typing was an option (and you certainly move through lessons faster w/ Word bank + b/c Word Bank exists technically you dont even need to type/'write' in kana or kanji to learn reading and pronunciation)

    other good resources, aside from Duo & Anki:

    Tae Kim. i find his website layout kind of annoying, but i bought a physical copy of his book and read it whenever i have downtime. some if his explanations are poor & weird but 96% of the time he provides a very readable breakdown of japanese grammar. i'm doing a second complete read through it now and am v pleased to see how much more of it i understand/recognize having gotten through 2/3 or so of Duo's course

    RTK (link to just # 1 but # 2 also good. # 3 i think less so. fundamentally different -- and less fun, but probably more efficient -- approach to learning kanji. he argues you should just use his approach and not pollute it w/ others. i got a lot out of going through it once, and will probably go through it again when i finish w/ Duo)

    8020 Ha vs Ga article (i have never seen a clearer explanation of ha vs ga; my impression is the usual "lists of use cases" can generally be 'derived' from this, even if it isn't always obvious how. dude's site also has a bunch of other stuff and a book he sells but not sure how good those are, havent looked)

    Japanese Ammo no Misa Youtube videos (also one other that I can't remember..). i especially like that she has added a bunch of videos grouped according to and targeted at specific JLPT (official formal japanese test thing) levels, and that these go up to the top JLPT level (1)

    maybe imabi for a grammar deep dive. it has a lot of typos but seems comprehensive and is frequently recommended in the Duo forums. i'm only a handful of sections into it; i still mostly rely on tae kim & Duo discussion pages

    easy japanese news NHK website, for independent reading material

    i recommend Google IME keyboard over Microsoft IME keyboard fwiw. there are other options than those too that idk about. 'learning to type' in hiragana/katakana/kanji is really just a tech installation thing, not a japanese learning thing, for the most part, since you'll be typing in roman character combinations that get mapped by the IME to a given japanese character(s)

    Rikai-kun add-on if you use Chrome

    Jisho for an online dictionary
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  14. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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  15. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    i had one job

    upload_2021-10-29_22-30-44.png
     
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  16. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    I’m coming up on 1000 day streak on Spanish Duo and I don’t think I’ve hit that sentence yet
     
  17. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    i love that it's お尻 and not just 尻. we're not talking about how big my butt is; we're talking, respectfully, about how big my butt is
     
  18. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    The honorifics stuff is often funny like that. It always jumps out at me when in a movie or tv (not so much in anime) you’ll have two characters who despise each other having an argument, or people barking out high-stakes information with a clock running down and lives on the line, etc, and one character is still addressing the other with ます/です just because they’re, like, six months older or something

    The Japanese clearly must not feel this way, but it’s just impossible to sound forceful or assertive speaking in 丁寧形
     
  19. Arogarn

    Arogarn TZT Neckbeard

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    Wow Ageless you speak Spanish too?
     
  20. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Legend (seek help)

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    upload_2021-10-31_10-43-14.png

    i want to quit my job and write sentences for duo