Venezuela’s Collapse Is the Worst Outside of War in Decades, Economists Say

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Agrul, May 26, 2019.

  1. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    MARACAIBO, Venezuela — Zimbabwe’s collapse under Robert Mugabe. The fall of the Soviet Union. Cuba’s disastrous unraveling in the 1990s.

    The crumbling of Venezuela’s economy has now outpaced them all.

    Venezuela’s fall is the single largest economic collapse outside of war in at least 45 years, economists say.

    “It’s really hard to think of a human tragedy of this scale outside civil war,” said Kenneth Rogoff, an economics professor at Harvard University and former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund. “This will be a touchstone of disastrous policies for decades to come.”

    poor governance, corruption and misguided policies of President Nicolás Maduro and his predecessor, Hugo Chávez, have fueled runaway inflation, shuttered businesses and brought the country to its knees. And in recent months, the Trump administration has imposed stiff sanctions to try to cripple it further.

    As the country’s economy plummeted, armed gangs took control of entire towns, public services collapsed and the purchasing power of most Venezuelans has been reduced to a couple of kilograms of flour a month.

    In markets, butchers hit by regular blackouts jostle to sell decomposing stock by sunset. Former laborers scavenge through garbage piles for leftovers and recyclable plastic. Dejected retailers make dozens of trips to the bank in hopes of depositing several pounds’ worth of bills made worthless by hyperinflation.

    Here in Maracaibo, a city of two million on the border with Colombia, nearly all of the butchers in the main market have stopped selling meat cuts in favor of offal and leftovers like fat shavings and cow hooves, the only animal protein many of their customers can still afford.

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    People shopping for unrefrigerated offal and other beef byproducts at the flea market in Maracaibo, Venezuela.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
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    People shopping for unrefrigerated offal and other beef byproducts at the flea market in Maracaibo, Venezuela.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
    The crisis has been compounded by American sanctions intended to force Mr. Maduro to cede power to the nation’s opposition leader, Juan Guaidó. The Trump administration’s recent sanctions on Venezuela’s state oil company have made it difficult for the government to sell its main commodity, oil. Together with the American ban on trading Venezuelan bonds, the administration has made it harder for Venezuela to import any goods, including food and medication.

    Mr. Maduro blames the widespread hunger and lack of medical supplies on the United States and its opposition allies — but most independent economists say the recession began years before the sanctions, which at most accelerated the collapse.

    “We are fighting a savage battle against international sanctions that have made Venezuela lose at least $20 billion in 2018,” Mr. Maduro told supporters in a recent speech. “They are pursuing our bank accounts, our purchases abroad of any products. It’s more than a blockade, it’s persecution.”

    Shortages have sunk much of the population in a deepening humanitarian crisis, though a core group of military top brass and high-level officials who remain loyal to Mr. Maduro are able to tap into the remaining resources to survive — or even enrich themselves through illicit means.

    To many, it seems each month brings record lows.

    trekking across mountains, setting off Latin America’s biggest ever refugee crisis.

    Venezuela’s hyperinflation, expected to reach 10 million percent this year according to the I.M.F., is on track to become the longest period of runaway price rises since that in the Democratic Republic of Congo in the 1990s.

    “This is essentially a total collapse in consumption,” said Sergi Lanau, deputy chief economist at the Institute of International Finance, a financial trade association.

    blackout in March plunged the state into a week of darkness and chaos that left about 500 businesses ransacked.

    Power has been sporadic ever since, exacerbating longstanding water and gasoline shortages and leaving towns without functional banking systems and cellphone coverage for days on end.

    The flea market, a once-bustling maze of stalls from which vendors hawked food and household goods, has become the face of this crisis.


    Vendors with bags of worthless cash at their stall in Maracaibo’s flea market.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
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    Vendors with bags of worthless cash at their stall in Maracaibo’s flea market.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
    Juan Carlos Valles arrives at his tiny canteen in a corner of the market by 5 a.m. and begins making a broth out of beef bones and frying corn pastries in the darkness. He says his stall has been without power since March, his sales are down 80 percent since last year and each day is a struggle against soldiers who force him to accept nearly worthless low-denomination bills.


    Whatever money he makes he immediately invests in more bones and corn flour, because prices go up daily.

    “If you take a rest, you lose,” said Mr. Valles, who has run his canteen since 1998. “The money has become worthless. By the time you take it to the bank, you have already lost some of it.”

    Real incomes in Venezuela have fallen to levels last seen in the country in 1979, according to the international finance institute, leaving many to survive by collecting firewood, gathering fruit and fetching water in streams.


    Daniel González, 53, taking care of his children and his neighbor’s in Maracaibo’s Arco Iris shantytown.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
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    Daniel González, 53, taking care of his children and his neighbor’s in Maracaibo’s Arco Iris shantytown.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
    “The government is talking about solutions in the long and medium term, but the hunger is now,” said Miguel González, the head of the community council at Maracaibo’s Arco Iris shantytown.

    He said he lost his job at a hotel when looters ransacked it in March, ripping out even window frames and cable wiring. He now collects wild plums to sell for a few cents in the city’s parks. Most of his community’s diet now consists of wild fruits, fried corn pastries and bone broth, residents said.

    Farther from the state capital, conditions are worse.

    Toas Island, once a touristic idyll of about 12,000 residents spread over fishing hamlets, has been largely abandoned.


    “There’s no local, regional or national government here,” said José Espina, a motorbike taxi driver there. “We’re on our own.”

    Electricity and running water are available for only a few hours a day. The boat that provided regular service to the mainland broke down last month. An oil barge lent by the state oil company occasionally tugs a rusty ferry carrying meager supplies of subsidized food — a precarious lifeline for the island’s poorer residents.


    An oil barge tugging Toas Island’s broken-down ferry to the mainland to fetch meager amounts of subsidized food.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
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    An oil barge tugging Toas Island’s broken-down ferry to the mainland to fetch meager amounts of subsidized food.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
    Hyperinflation has reduced the island’s entire budget to the equivalent of $400 a month, or just 3 cents per estimated resident, according to the mayor, Hector Nava.

    The hospital has no medication and no patients. The last person to be hospitalized died in agony a day later without treatment for her kidney disease, doctors at the hospital said.

    As Toas hospital’s beds stand empty, 2-year-old Anailin Nava is wasting away in a nearby hut from malnutrition and treatable muscular paralysis. Her mother, Maibeli Nava, does not have money to take her to Colombia for treatment, she said.


    The hospital in Toas Island is empty — its last patient died without care. Nearby, two-year-old Anailin, left, is wasting away from severe malnutrition and treatable muscular paralysis.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
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    The hospital in Toas Island is empty — its last patient died without care. Nearby, two-year-old Anailin, left, is wasting away from severe malnutrition and treatable muscular paralysis.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times

    The four stone quarries that are the island’s only industry have been idle since robbers stole all power cables connecting them to the grid last year. Local opposition activists estimate up to a third of the residents have emigrated from the island in the past two years.

    “It used to be a paradise,” said Arturo Flores, the local municipality’s security coordinator, who sells a fermented corn drink from a bucket to local fishermen to round up his salary, which is equivalent to $4 a month. “Now, everyone is fleeing.”

    On the other side of Zulia state, in the ranching town of Machiques, the economic collapse has decimated the meat and dairy industries that had supplied the country.

    Power cuts have idled the local slaughterhouse, once one of the largest in Latin America. Armed gangs extort and rustle cattle from the surviving ranchers.

    “You can’t produce if there’s no law,” said Rómulo Romero, a local rancher.


    The slaughterhouse in Machiques, once one of the largest in Latin America, has been idled by power cuts.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
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    The slaughterhouse in Machiques, once one of the largest in Latin America, has been idled by power cuts.CreditMeridith Kohut for The New York Times
    Local shopkeepers have pulled together to repair power lines and keep telecom towers running, to feed public workers, and to procure diesel for backup generators.

    “We have practically taken on the functions of the state,” said Juan Carlos Perrota, a butcher who runs Machiques’ chamber of commerce. “We can’t just put a lock on the door and call it quits. We have hope that this will improve.”


    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/...omy.html?utm_source=quora&utm_medium=referral
     
  2. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    I feel like saying something sarcastic about the Chavismo regime, but it's really just damn tragic for the people.
     
  3. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    remember yemen, yeah that's far worse
     
  4. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    25,171
  5. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Asti assured me this shit wouldn't happen I kinda feel lied to
     
  6. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    25,171
    maggie haberman of nyt ran a propaganda piece on hope hicks today that AOC called out

    It's known maggie haberman is closed to Jared and Ivanka

    so who wrote this article

    Failed ‘coup’ actually a corporate fake news story designed to trick Venezuelan soldiers and the public
    We now know the truth: the whole thing was a fraud staged at the instigation of Washington in hopes that the Venezuelan people and rank-and-file troops would fall for the trick and think a coup was underway.
    May 8, 2019

    https://www.nationofchange.org/2019...-to-trick-venezuelan-soldiers-and-the-public/

    After days of breathless reporting in the US media about public and military support for Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro collapsing, and about an April 30 coup by presidential poseur Juan Guaidó, we now know the truth: the whole thing was a fraud staged at the instigation of Washington in hopes that the Venezuelan people and rank-and-file troops would fall for the trick and think a coup was underway.

    We also know, from an excellent May 2 report by Michael Fox in the Nation magazine, that the U.S. mainstream media and its reporters in country were promoting that dangerous fraud.

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    CNN ran this story and video showing Juan Guaido, the US-chosen ‘legitimate president’ of Venezuela, supposedly speaking from a liberated military airfield and suppposedly speaking to a crowd of ‘thousands,’ when in fact he was standing on a bridge speaking only to a camera and the airbase was firmly in government hands and never was even threatened.

    Take CNN. In its reporting on the ‘coup’ announced by Guaidó on Tuesday, April 30, a video was run on social media depicting Guaidó, with a leading opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez (allegedly just freed from house arrest by deserting soldiers) by his side along with some armed men in uniform, allegedly military deserters, standing behind them, claiming they were on the allegedly captured La Carlota military airfield in eastern Caracas. Guaidó, claiming the airbase had been “liberated,” and according to CNN addressing “thousands of supporters” on the scene, calls in this video for the rest of the Venezuelan military to desert and join the coup and oust the “usurper” Maduro

    But as Fox and other observers note, CNN didn’t show those “thousands” of supporters (there were none). Nor did CNN explain in its report that Guaidó and Lopez were not actually at the airbase, but rather were standing on a highway overpass outside the base, which was in fact never in rebel hands at all.

    Guaidó and his “deserting” soldiers quickly left the scene as government troops headed their way, with Lopez later that day holing up in the Chilean and eventually the Spanish embassy, seeking asylum for himself and his family, and with some two dozen soldiers who had deserted in support of Guaidó, asking for asylum in the Brazilian embassy.

    There are two possibilities here: either CNN’s U.S.-based editors were lied to by their reporters in Caracas or they were well aware that their story of a coup and the takeover of a military airfield was a hoax, along with reports of thousands of protesters on the scene in support of Guaidó. It’s easy to imagine the latter being the truth because CNN earlier was caught fraudulently reporting that Venezuelan troops had set aid trucks stopped at the Columbian border afire, when in fact the fires had been started by anti-Maduro protesters. Though this truth was proven by other reports and video, CNN never corrected its false story in that case nor did it discipline or fire its on-the-scene reporters.

    The NY Times hasn’t done any better. On the day of the fake coup, theTimes, in an unusual un-bylined article (at the end there was a note saying only that reporting was contributed by Isayen Herrera, Nicholas Casey, Anatoly Kurmanaev, Ana Vanessa Herrero, Rick Gladstone and Katie Rogers), headed “Venezuela Crisis: Guaidó Calls for Uprising as Clashes Erupt,” reported as follows:

    “Today, brave soldiers, brave patriots, brave men attached to the Constitution have followed our call,” Mr. Guaidó said in a video posted on social media, speaking from Generalissimo Francisco de Miranda Air Base, a military airport in Caracas known as La Carlota.

    The “newspaper of record” either made no effort to check its reporters’ “facts,” or went along deliberately with the charade that Washington’s hand-picked “legitimate president” Guaidó was actually speaking from a “liberated” military airfield, when he was really only standing on a highway overpass outside the airfield, which itself was never even contested and which remained in government hands through the whole day…








    that name is the person who wrote agruls NYT article
     
  7. Holystrife

    Holystrife What the fuck did you just try to put in my ass?

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    Czer, the only reason I liked your post is because it shows what matters the most, children.
     
  8. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    The US is going to end

    Innocent peole matter not just kids idiot
     
  9. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    25,171
    also any immigrants to the US supporting intervention in 'their' previous country are being watched

    dead serious you're under surveillance if you belong to those groups and everything about you and everyone you interact with is being passed back to open sources that will reach their country of origin
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  10. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    25,171
    Lindsey Graham proposes invading Venezuela to oust Maduro
    Graham believes the threat of an invasion could check what he says is Cuban influence in the country.
    May 26, 2019

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...-graham-trump-invade-venezuela-reagan-grenada

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a close ally of President Donald Trump, suggested the president take a tough stance in dealing with the ongoing Venezuelan crisis: A US invasion similar to the one executed by Ronald Reagan in Grenada back in 1983.

    “Trump said rightly, Maduro’s not the legitimate leader of Venezuela. The entire region supports the Trump approach, that Guaidó is the legitimate leader,” Graham said on Fox News Sunday. “I would do exactly what Reagan did. I would give Cuba the ultimatum to get out of Venezuela. If they don’t, I would let the Venezuelan military know, you’ve got to choose between democracy and Maduro. And if you choose Maduro and Cuba, we’re coming after you. This is in our backyard.”



    Venezuela is currently in the midst of a presidential crisis following a massive economic collapse. The US has recognized opposition leader Juan Guaidó, the head of the National Assembly, as the country’s rightful president.

    Guaidó declared himself president this past January, arguing that the 2018 election that put President Nicolás Maduro in the executive’s chair was invalid, in part because members of the opposition were banned from running. As head of the National Assembly, Guaidó said he will serve as Venezuela’s president until new elections can be held. But Maduro refuses to step aside.

    Graham called on the United States to be ready to intervene militarily in Venezuela last week in a piece in the Wall Street Journal. There, as in his Fox interview, the senator argued Cuba is helping to prop up Maduro, and that the US should use its military to counter what Graham called the “Western Hemisphere version of Iran.”

    White House national security adviser John Bolton has said Cuba has at least 20,000 soldiers in Venezuela assisting Maduro; Cuban officials have called that figure outrageous, saying they have no troops in the country.

    Graham is clearly disinclined to believe Cuba, and told McClatchy, “We’re not occupying Venezuela, but if Maduro refuses to go and the Cubans keep using their military apparatus to prop him up, it is in our national security interest to do in Venezuela what Reagan did in Grenada.”

    The Grenada invasion occurred in 1983, following a violent power struggle within the small Caribbean country’s Marxist government. The Reagan administration said the invasion was necessary to protect American citizens on the island; it initially sent in 2,000 troops, with the number eventually swelling to 6,000. Around 20 American troops were killed — though the regime was in fact overthrown within a matter of days.

    Reagan later called the invasion an important check on communist influence, telling the American people “when the thugs tried to wrest control of Grenada, there were 30 Soviet advisers and hundreds of Cuban military and paramilitary forces on the island.”

    Graham has not outlined how an invasion of Venezuela using Grenada as a template would work. In 1983, Grenada had a population of less than 100,000, and as Reagan noted, the island is roughly twice the size of Washington, D.C. Venezuela, on the other hand, has a population of a little over 28 million people, is larger than Texas, and has roughly 160,000 troops in its military.

    In speaking with Fox, the senator did advise caution in another area of foreign policy, voicing misgivings about the new round of arms sales to Saudi Arabia, which the Trump administration might execute using a legal loophole to circumvent Congress.

    “I’ve got a real problem with going back to do doing business as usual with Saudi Arabia. Jordan is a great ally; the UAE has been problematic in Yemen, but a good ally,” Graham said. “Saudi Arabia is a strategic ally, but the Crown Prince was, in my opinion, involved in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. And he’s done a lot of other disruptive things.”



    At the same time, Graham also called for a greater presence of American troops in the Middle East, claiming increased troop presence would serve as a check on Iran while arguing against invading the country.

    “I do support American troops going into the Mideast in larger numbers, to deter Iran,” Graham said. “President Trump is putting a lot of pressure on Iran. They’re trying to break our will, and this is an effort to deter Iranian aggression — not to invade Iran.”
     
  11. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    25,171
    our country is not going to survive this, there are organizations tracking US police, FBI agents, JTTF etc

    a little under 1 million cops, only around 50k fbi.

    there is a project to track conservatives across the US in crazy detail like the Syrian tracking of its diaspora which is over 2 million people
     
  12. Skars

    Skars I never troll

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    41,694
    USAs crocodile tears on this shit are the worst, youre the ones doing it,

    hurrrr sanction the fuck out of everything, people are dying its so awful.

    sanctions on kids are ok if the leader is left-wing but dont put sanctions on rich russian oligarchs. your country is scum.
     
  13. Skars

    Skars I never troll

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    41,694
    this is a little bit off the wall tho. yes im sure the iranian deep state is gonna strike anyday
     
  14. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    I don't see the point to the sanctions and agree they're cruel, but it seems quite a stretch to blame Venezuela's collapse on one country's sanctions. Mixed market-based economies are generally much more resilient than that.
     
  15. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    Cant be an edgy shitlord if you believe that
     
  16. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    besides w/ diplomacy like this i dont see how u can suspect the good ol' US

     
  17. Samassi Abou

    Samassi Abou TZT Abuser

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    It's a well established fact that Venezuela's economy was crushed by rampant shitposting.
     
  18. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    5,873
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  19. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    16,324
    Dem coins
     
  20. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    45,864
    way to make this political red