dota underlords

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Utumno, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    How many of y'all still playing this?

    I've only very recently started playing any appreciable amount, but I'm starting to have real fun w/it. I may just have gotten really lucky, but after getting crushed repeatedly when I started out (I've never really played any type of game like this enough to understand the mechanics), I'm finally starting to win some rounds.

    I'm generally placing top half of the pack now, and got 1st place 3 or 4 times today.

    That said, I can't shake the feeling all those 1st place finishes were luck. I mean it seems to me like you have to understand the game enough to putting alliances/items to good use, but beyond that, there seems to be an *extreme* amount of luck involved.

    All those wins came with at least three or four 3rd-tier units, while none of my opponents had more than two. That's pretty much just down to luck isn't it? It always feels incredibly hard to get more than one unit to 3rd level, and if I do better than that, it just feels like the dice rolled my way vs. any masterful picking strategy.
     
  2. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    I still play it. Ranked up to Big Boss and burned out a little bit so it's been about a week since I've touched it.

    There's less luck involved than you think. You cycle through hundreds of units in one game, so the sheer volume of that evens out the RNG factor. Adjusting your choices based on which units your opponents have (i.e., don't take druids if three other people are already doing it) is an important part of the strategy.

    Positioning and economy (i.e., riding gold gain interest for as long as you can without taking too much damage) are both crucial to winning, as is countering specific comps late-game (e.g., adding Lich against Trolls) and knowing which heroes are optimal for items. One of my friends won a game he was losing badly because I told him to switch his refresher orb over to his Techies, for example. The other guy left in the game could have beaten him had he adjusted his unit positioning, but he did nothing so he lost. I see a lot of that stuff at the lower ranks when I play with friends. Around Lt./Boss rank, I'll lose the occasional game due to RNG but I would guess that I finish in the top three >90% of the time. I'd say the RNG influence is comparable to MTG. It's definitely there, but most of the time the better players will win.

    https://qihl.gg/articles/-jxn3qi8k
     
  3. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Good info searpal.

    I played a couple more matches last night and won one and was top 3 on the next, so yeah... I'm thinking you're probably right. Like you can get screwed by RNG but when you get proficient (and if you're in a lower tier like I am... I forget the name, but it's like the 5th or 6th one I think) then you're probably going to do well most of the time it seems.

    Most of the stuff you wrote I pay pretty close attention to now (particularly when I learned the units come from a common pool, that was a big aha moment). I still can't tell by squinting at little icons what units people have in the summary screen, but I at least look at their alliances and steer away from shit if 4 other people are trying to specialize on knights or mages or some shit.

    I am in no way at the stage where I try to counter enemies though, not sure if I'll ever get there. It's daunting enough at the moment trying to build an ideal set of units to match some of the more powerful items, and keeping track of gold gen... I don't think I have the mental space to counter enemy compositions during late game. I guess when all the other shit becomes second nature it may be doable, but it'll probably be a real stretch lol

    Gonna read up on that placement article, that's also a part of my game I know is weak as I've not paid much attention beyond tanks-in-front squishies-in-back.

    Big Boss is like the top rank right? How does that get calculated anyway? Now that I'm winning a lot I am not surprised that I'm levelling okay, but earlier on I was losing a shitload and also levelling. I started to think that the rankings were just based on how many matches you played and not how good you have gotten, but that doesn't sound quite right either.
     
  4. Bailon

    Bailon TZT Neckbeard

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    I've dabbled in the League of Legends version but got bored. Have I think 4 games where I won untouched but that was luck more than anything. Placing in the top 4 (what is considered a victory in the LOL version) is not really luck though, outside of the opening item RNG that can fuck you. Auto chess is just not my cup of tea though.
     
  5. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Valve has been pretty good about tweaking the mechanics. They're far from perfect, but this is the most balanced meta I've seen.

    Before the last two patches, 3-star units were garbage and the late-game boiled down to "whoever gets a 2-star Tidehunter or Enigma first wins the game" RNG. Plus nobody spent gold for the first ~15-20 rounds since there was little risk to turtling and saving 50g each round for interest. It's a LOT better now with a lot more viable strategies in the mix.

    I do think they overdid some of the 3-star unit buffs. 3-star Venomancer for example, if you get lucky and land him early that really can ruin a game. It won't surprise me if some of them get nerfed a bit. Ideally, it should be a conscious choice with a trade-off if you try to get a 3-star unit -- since it requires you to sacrifice flexibility, clear out most of your bench space, and spend gold on something that won't pay off for a while.

    Their ranked system uses the typical hidden ELO/MMR. Big Boss is the highest normal tier (below the numbered/challenger one). Ranking up to it was kind of a pain in the ass so I don't plan on going beyond that. Most of the time I'd rather try to make some retarded build work instead of tryharding. My favorite one that actually won a game was running 9 Warlocks/Ogres and 1 Bloodseeker equipped with the bloodbound item.
     
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  6. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    god damnit, sear is onto my 3-star venomancer strat lol (not that it's some sort of secret i'm sure, it really is fucking OP and easy to do if I could find it)
     
  7. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    One more question @Sear or anyone who knows... there was a new update and now there are options for casual and ranked multiplayer. Do you know if casual is just randomized or are there still skill tiers and some level of skill-based matchmaking even in casual? I'm assuming ranked multiplayer is like it would be in hearthstone or overwatch or any other competitive game where W/L is srs business.
     
  8. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually, nm.... just read the patch notes, it's all explained there.

    Both try to do matchmaking.
     
  9. TulionKT

    TulionKT Spamaton Will Rise Again

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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
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  10. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    I tried to get into it, but couldn't get it to work on my phone and gave up. I will try again later, maybe.
     
  11. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Utumno I can't message you on steam for some reason but I'm pretty sure I'm playing u right now
     
  12. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah I just got my ass kicked, 5th place. I blame you lol

    (And of course you're going to place first. I call hax!)
     
  13. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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  14. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Damn that was actually a lot closer than I expected.

    Good shit. I'm hitting the sack.
     
  15. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    blink dagger on shadow fiend got 'er done

    not a thinking man's strategy, but it works
     
  16. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    I kept thinking all the ppl saying knights were one of the top tier factions were crazy. I never seemed to be able to get a full set before dying horribly.

    Finally got a full set tonight and that shit is pretty dope. I knocked most other ppl out while only having 7 units and most of the others already had 9. Their damage looks so week but the group was sortof impossible to kill (esp w/a side of warlock for extra longevity)
     
  17. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    I have yet to do well w/a full Mage loadout though. That one is even harder to get a full crew of 6 before you die horribly due to squishiness. A couple times I got a full set and yeah they unleashed some serious hurt but they die so fucking fast.
     
  18. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    ps add me as a friend if ur playing

    FQJ1MV

    and post ur friend code here so I can add you back
     
  19. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    I'd do 3 Mages + Knights. I don't think 6 mages is workable right now.

    Dragon Knight goes especially well with mages and the other knights give you a solid frontline (omni/abaddon/chaos are all solid).

    For the mage characters, I think Puck is strong all game. Crystal Maiden is always good as a battery, and Lina is ok. Razor/Ogre are good early game but should be replaced by around round 20-25 or so. Lich is strong and Keeper is IF you can protect him long enough for him to get his ability off.
     
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  20. ToKu

    ToKu TZT Veteran

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    Was playing the LoL version until recently when I found Underlords was on my phone as well and plays as well as on PC. 6 mages is doable but rough, you pretty much sac your early game and it doesn't really kick in until you can get a lvl 2 Puck or 2. Also helps if you get lucky on the item drops.