2020 election cycle thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AgelessDrifter, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    I would like to see the dems field a pragmatic that isn't afraid to get their hands dirty to get things done. That is basically the main appeal of Trump, all they have to do is to not be utterly incompetent or amoral to be the preferable option. How hard can it be?

    The progressive fringe is probably not going to let them though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  2. Fais

    Fais TZT Abuser

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    There was no compromise with the right. Universal Healthcare wasn't possible and the idea abandoned by the left during Obama's term. Its only those uninformed ideologues that are trying to champion it on the left. As it will be abandoned once they get past the primaries. There was no compromise... the Left had both houses and the presidency. This is the best they could do.
     
  3. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    Yes, because of the centrists
     
  4. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    Big Fais putting it down
     
  5. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    All I care about is winning the election, though. The article doesn't bother to argue why a hard-line extremist candidate would be more capable of that or more productive at enacting policies.

    I think people have unrealistic expectations for a hypothetical uncompromising extreme-left president. It's a child's view of politics to me. We have three branches of government and obstruction/compromise come with that territory. It's part of why Trump is currently limited in terms of passing far-right policy and paying for his precious wall.

    I had a similar discussion a few years ago - I think with Grandy - when I was arguing for the hard-line extremist candidate (Bernie) over the pragmatic centrist (Clinton). The major difference between Beto and Clinton is that he isn't weighed down by scandal and has shown that he can generate a groundswell of momentum in a deep-red state (including previously-untapped voter demographics). His policies may not be liberal enough for my liking, but if he ends up being the guy then that's fine.

    I'm not going to play Emotional Ideological Martyr in 2020. Whichever candidate looks to have the best odds of beating Trump will get my support. If it is a far-left socialist like Bernie, great. That'd be ideal. But I think looking at this purely through the lens of policy is missing the bigger picture.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  6. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    That's exactly what people have been doing, no one has any idea what the actual policy is

    that's an actual overton window argument

    let's be clear, if anyone loses to trump it's because of centrists assisting with the election of people on the electoral college
     
  7. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    If Bernie doesnt promise any of these I am voting for Donald

    Legalize weed
    Gay baby marriage rights
    Late term abortion up to the age of 45
    Mandatory Hennessy parties with Kim Jong Un
     
  8. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    i bet he wants the suntory so bad, they bought Courvoisier
     
  9. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    You know this dude knows how to party
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    If we are operating under some vague equation in which:

    Electability = (Aethestics + Pragmatism) - Liberalism

    I would like to see the “liberalism”
    variable be as high as possible.

    I’m not sure that liberalism, even if a relatively extreme variety, is the electability poison that it is made out to be, but even if we accept that idea, then I’d still like to see a candidate give away as little of it as possible.

    I don’t think Beto is the guy that gets the balance right.
     
  11. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    It's not what I'm arguing, but we could talk about how the Overton window relates to American politics if you want. It is interesting and I do think there's some truth to that.

    Policy being outside or inside the range "acceptable to the public" doesn't matter to me, though. I'm all for Socialist Bernie if he has the support to win (and I think he did in 2016).
     
  12. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    What the fuck is an Overton window.
     
  13. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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  14. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    24,654
  15. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    why are you arguing about trump, he's not the problem, talking about individuals as being solely responsible is obtuse

    I thought we were passed this, we have general ideological issues between groups of people, the main being centrists pull to the right for preferable financial rules that has lead to this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  16. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    Other things I want from the presidential candidates

    Real life Running Man
    Over medium will be the only option for eggs
    Crunchy peanut butter outlawed
    Press secretary is only allowed to talk like Hulk Hogan and end every answer with a long drawn out brother
    Using the term working hard or hardly working is punishable by death
    Duel of the Fates will now be the national anthem
    Talking at a urinal is a mandatory minimum of 15 years
    Czer gets a 1 hour block everyday on every TV channel where he gets sassy about whatever topic he wants. There will be many mmmmmmmm gurls used.
     
  17. AgelessDrifter

    AgelessDrifter TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Hmm, I don't really know how to feel about that, honestly--I agree so much with the first part and so adamantly little with the last part. Like, yeah, I'd vote for charismatic McLeftist against Trump, whoever that turned out to be, one way or the other, I suppose (I don't suppose, I know) but right now we're in the primary and it doesn't make sense to think in those terms. Right now is exactly the time to think about policy and only policy if you care enough to know the candidates' policies. If some other candidate is the only candidate that can win the GE because Charisma, then they'll beat your policy guy in the primary, too, and they don't need your support, but the converse is not true.
     
  18. Fais

    Fais TZT Abuser

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    When the centrist are this broad a group on this specific issue. Whats the difference?
     
  19. Skars

    Skars I never troll

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    The ACA is literally a 90s republican healthcare plan and LOL at you acting like its some sort of progressive good policy.

    Yeah you're right, obama was passing great policy left and right when he had big majorities in both houses, its those darn republicans that keep ruining everything.

    charlie brown in the house.
     
  20. Skars

    Skars I never troll

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    41,689
    can't wait for bernie to win the primary and then some 'concerned centrist' billionaire running purely to split the vote and getting an inordinate amount of media attention + 'resistance' support.