1990 Donald Trump

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vlaara, Mar 30, 2019.

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  1. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    There is a
    87 interview with Larry King.

     
  2. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    At least he is consistent. Clearly a very ego-centric and cut-throat mercantilist view of the world.
     
  3. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    yeah, Americans knew who he was before they voted him in. Been the same for 40 years.

    they still know who he is, and don't care.
     
  4. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    This is imo the dark underbelly of the American dream. In the end it's a strictly materialistic and egocentric ambition. If you take that to the extreme you get somebody like Trump. By that yardstick he is somebody to look up to. An absolute role model, as one of the callers said.

    Never mind that he #won to a large extent just by being born rich and amoral, which to a rational person would betray the flaws in that ideology. He is clearly 100% invested in that ideology, and has turned himself into the high priest in the church of the Dollar. Unfortunately, it's not very good for building enduring societies.
     
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  5. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    Still, you got to love a man who will stare at the sun just because you told him not to.
     
  6. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    I respect a man for not being afraid to go his own way, but only if he has to live with the consequences. Trump has had enough fuck-you money to insulate his views from the real world. Has Trump ever admitted to having been wrong?

    To be clear I was not 100% against Trump, some things needed shaking up, but he his complete disregard for facts is very dangerous.
     
  7. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    So, I wouldn't say it is the dark underbelly. I grew up with these kinds of people in the latter part of my childhood.



    I'm subscribed, and I enjoy.

    My favorite WWE character is the Ultimate Warrior. I love burgers, I love American style foreign food. I love driving, I love cars. I am well versed in Western Canon in general from The Constitution to the Bible to Shakespeare and everything in between. I got black guns, I know how to use them. I love violence just as much as any other American.

    I didn't sign up to fight for this country, I signed up on a lark but it was something about serving with the people, and the willingness to put it all on the line in a way that you just can't in the civilian world that changed it for me. I'm a fucking Westerner, and I'm pretty unapologetic about it too. But you guys are tied up with me, you see? I'm one of you, I am separate from but inseparable from this country.

    America came to me, I didn't come to America. Yet I love this country, and I love everything we represent including our president and the 43% of the country who approve of him. I don't want him to be president again, but I don't think most people fundamentally understand what is happening here.

    Seriously, if you hate Donald Trump then you do hate America. I get it though, this has been hard for me to come to terms with as well.

    The very thing that makes us great is what makes us terrible. Culture exists to mitigate those things because some things by design have to admit the good with the bad as they come hand in hand. So, we have a culture of great personal freedom, but not a culture of great responsibility, and the first thing everyone wants to do is point fingers, then throw up their hands.

    I'm articulating a present, and it leads to a bunch of futures none of which are calm sailing but some are quite navigable.

    Is everyone here still stupid or what?
     
  8. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    Individualism and freedom of speech are all fine, but on their own they don't mean you have to a dick to get ahead. The question comes down to what society you want to build. Do much do you want amorality to correlate with success? Those are the signals you are sending with Trump.
     
  9. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    The signals you read aren't intended for you pal. They are FUBU, For Us By Us.

    We don't give a fuck what non-Americans think about us. You see? I'm not even trying to be rude or dramatic. You know its true. Certainly some Americans care what other countries think about us, and I care about those Americans and what they think. But American Americans don't care. Trump supporters are just salt of the earth people you know? Might be rednecks to you, but they are my family. They are men I went to war with.

    I care more about what Donald Trump thinks than I care what any of you jokers thinks about anything, fucking least of all anyone who isn't American.

    I'd trust his judgment over most of yours too. Because I know who he is, and I don't know who any of you are. He's consistent, and he's been consistently himself since my memories begin.

    Now, in a time of great uncertainty who do you suppose people are attracted to?
     
  10. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    you're not making sense, this is more like pre 1942 Italy and you're a black shirt

    actual white people are more like brownshirts

    you think you're the same, but the brownshirts know better

     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  11. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    I think the risk in always treating Trump like a political unicorn is that it obscures the extent to which he is the same old effect for the same old cause. He's the old, plainspeaking white guy that is here to protect you against change. Reagan was the GREAT COMMUNICATOR that largely capitalized on the backlash against civil rights. George W was the folksy southerner that capitalized on the backlash against secularism. Trump is in the same vein. (And he is going to have to work really hard to kill as many people as those two.)

    You could take your statement, "If you hate Trump, you hate America", and more broadly extrapolate it to "If you hate conservatives, you hate America". Conservativism, by nature, protects the status quo (the interests of the white majority), and you can always claim that the status quo is, to some extent, "America". I'm fine with that, because a lot of America sucks and needs to change, just as a lot of Canada sucks and needs to change. But I don't think Trump, just because he is rich and narcissistic and terrible, necessarily represents "America" more than any other President. Obama represented values X, and Bush represented values Y and Clinton represented values Z, and so on and so on.
     
  12. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    i think it's ok to hate america

    loving a country is weirder than hating a country
     
  13. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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  14. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    God damn that hurts the most. I need me some delicious avocado
     
  15. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    One begins to wonder if you aren't simply using me as a convenient place to hang your biases in order to get a closer look at them.
     
  16. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    There are different paths we could have taken to be [a free society that emphasizes competitive individualism], but the one we're on currently is not one of the better outcomes.

    American priorities have been wrong for a long time (emphasizing greed, social status, physical appearance, obnoxious behavior, free enterprise at the expense of its citizens, blind adherence to archaic traditionalism, militant jingoism, etc) and I see that as a byproduct of ideas (the American Dream, Christianity, the Constitution) that were too broadly interpreted and flawed to begin with.

    There's nothing to celebrate in Trump reviving the Republican party and running his micropenis golden Ford-950 Turboraptor over any incremental progress that Obama made. It just means America will have to wait a little longer for more old conservative Christians to die out before we can even entertain the idea of making progress.

    My father and I spent some time yesterday picking up other people's trash by the creek I live next to. Lots of beer cans and McTrashbags left by fellow countrymen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  17. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    I have a lady pal who moved to Georgia from SF several years back.

    They live by a beautiful reservoir and I'm always jealous of photos she posts because lakeside living + such convenient fishing just sounds amazing to me.

    Then she started posting how much trash she collects every. single. day. when she goes for walks. Whether it's just her and her dogs, or if she brings her two kids with her, they always bring trash bags, and collect when they are full. It is fucking INSANE how much trash people dump there. I mean I applaud her efforts, but it's just a thankless endless task. (She's also probably considered satans spawn because she's bleeding heart leftie through and through).

    Good on her for continuing to try though. She's a much better person than me.
     
  18. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    I’m just responding to other people’s premises with that language (ie by the yardstick of “egocentric ambition” he is someone to look up to).

    While I think he likely has NPD (can’t say for sure from afar), and subjectively think he is terrible, I don’t think the average American aspires to be just like him. Rich, sure. Self-Assured, maybe. Famous, maybe. But I think a lot of people are turned off by his narcissism and pussy grabbing. And I think a lot of people that still “support him” do so begrudgingly because he’s on their side in the culture war.
     
  19. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Also I'ma just throw it out there that America doesn't seem to make anything particularly well. What do you guys think of when you see one of those red-white-and-blue PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA stickers on a product? My initial reaction is always "this is probably cheap shit that will break easily" even moreso than the MADE IN CHINA products created by sweatshop laborers.

    Even video games are no exception to that. American developers have caught up at this point, but Japan was doing it better for decades. You'd think that as a society so large and competitive and insistent on proclaiming itself to be the best, we'd have more to offer.
     
  20. SkafflocTZ

    SkafflocTZ TZT Addict

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    Shush now, you shouldn't be eating that unamerican thing anyways - you should be eating ding-dongs and bacon.