So Czer is ISIS really just a Saudi front created to mess w/Iran?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Utumno, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    Velox posts are always bad and incredibly innacurate, Africa is dominated by Islam, and the second largest peaceful gathering after arbaeen in karbala is arbaeen in Africa, besides the point that eurasia and Asia will challenge Europe at every step and most likely win.

    Eurasia has older influence in the region also, just watch.

    Remember these wars when you think economy is the end all to power.
  2. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

    Post Count:
    Utumno: Well, I used to think that, but we have been consistently underestimating the fall in cost for renewable energy and battery tech so far. The thing is, we may not need any more major breakthroughs in science, only economies of scale on existing wind/solar and battery tech. Although oil in some form will stick around for a long time, I expect gasoline usage will fall pretty dramatically once fully electric options fall into the low to mid-range price segments. Long term investments in non-renewables seems like very risky bets at this point.
  3. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

    Post Count:
    I know your love is the cost of stepping into your kingdom Czer, but I don't think you actually contradicted anything I wrote. Yeah, Africa is largely Islamic. That doesn't mean we can't get along with them. Everything doesn't have to come down to war and military might, it is possible for countries to co-exist without trying to destroy each other.

    Most notably, in a MAD world, serious warfare looks decidedly unattractive. The west can mostly peacefully influence, trade and advance their technology. Hopefully the developing world will go through their own enlightenment. Speaking of power, at some point of automation, population advantages will become less relevant. On its current path of Islamification and oil reliance, a large chunk of the developing world will likely end up on the wrong side of those trends.
  4. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    Think about automation, how easy it is for technology to move from country to country especially production types.

    They will catch up much faster than people realize, the scary thought is, what are they going to focus all those people on, will they pick a fight because of their huge numbers?
  5. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  6. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    This is near the Umayyad mosque, or Great mosque of Damascus. Fourth holiest place in Islam to some I guess, whatever muslims. Iran is sending a point.

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  7. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  8. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  9. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:

    "When Hariri's plane landed in Riyadh, he got the message immediately that something was wrong."

    - From the moment Saad al-Hariri's plane touched down in Saudi Arabia on Friday November 3, he was in for a surprise.

    There was no line-up of Saudi princes or ministry officials, as would typically greet a prime minister on an official visit to King Salman, senior sources close to Hariri and top Lebanese political and security officials said. His phone was confiscated, and the next day he was forced to resign as prime minister in a statement broadcast by a Saudi-owned TV channel.

    The move thrust Lebanon back to the forefront of a struggle that is reshaping the Middle East, between the conservative Sunni monarchy of Saudi Arabia and Shi'ite revolutionary Iran.

    Their rivalry has fueled conflicts in Iraq, Syria and Yemen, where they back opposing sides, and now risks destabilizing Lebanon, where Saudi has long tried to weaken the Iran-backed Hezbollah group, Lebanon's main political power and part of the ruling coalition.

    Sources close to Hariri say Saudi Arabia has concluded that the prime minister - a long-time Saudi ally and son of late prime minister Rafik al-Hariri, who was assassinated in 2005 - had to go because he was unwilling to confront Hezbollah.

    Multiple Lebanese sources say Riyadh hopes to replace Saad Hariri with his older brother Bahaa as Lebanon's top Sunni politician. Bahaa is believed to be in Saudi Arabia and members of the Hariri family have been asked to travel there to pledge allegiance to him, but have refused, the sources say.

    "When Hariri's plane landed in Riyadh, he got the message immediately that something was wrong," a Hariri source told Reuters. "There was no one was waiting for him."

    Saudi Arabia has dismissed suggestions that it forced Hariri to resign and says he is a free man. Saudi officials could not immediately be reached for comment on the circumstances of his arrival, whether his phone had been taken, or whether the Kingdom was planning to replace him with his brother.


    Hariri was summoned to the Kingdom to meet Saudi King Salman in a phone call on Thursday night, November 2.

    Before departing, he told his officials they would resume their discussions on Monday. He told his media team he would see them on the weekend in the Red Sea resort of Sharm al-Sheikh, where he was due to meet Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on the sidelines of the World Youth Forum.

    Hariri went to his Riyadh home. His family made their fortune in Saudi Arabia and have long had properties there. The source close to Hariri said the Lebanese leader received a call from a Saudi protocol official on Saturday morning, who asked him to attend a meeting with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

    He waited for about four hours before being presented with his resignation speech to read on television, the source said.

    "From the moment he arrived they (Saudis) showed no respect for the man," another senior Lebanese political source said.

    Hariri frequently visits Saudi Arabia. On a trip a few days earlier, Prince Mohammed bin Salman had arranged for him to see senior intelligence officials and Gulf Affairs Minister Thamer al-Sabhan, the Saudi point man on Lebanon.

    Hariri came back from that trip to Beirut "pleased and relaxed," sources in his entourage said. He posted a selfie with Sabhan, both of them smiling. He told aides he had heard "encouraging statements" from the crown prince, including a promise to revive a Saudi aid package for the Lebanese army.

    The Hariri sources say Hariri believed he had convinced Saudi officials of the need to maintain an entente with Hezbollah for the sake of Lebanon's stability.

    Hezbollah has a heavily armed fighting force, in addition to seats in parliament and government. Saudi-backed efforts to weaken the group in Lebanon a decade ago led to Sunni-Shi'ite clashes and a Hezbollah takeover of Beirut.

    "What happened in those meetings, I believe, is that (Hariri) revealed his position on how to deal with Hezbollah in Lebanon: that confrontation would destabilize the country. I think they didn't like what they heard," said one of the sources, who was briefed on the meetings.

    The source said Hariri told Sabhan not to "hold us responsible for something that is beyond my control or that of Lebanon." But Hariri underestimated the Saudi position on Hezbollah, the source said.

    "For the Saudis it is an existential battle. It's black and white. We in Lebanon are used to grey," the source said.

    Sabhan could not immediately be reached for comment.

    Hariri’s resignation speech shocked his team.

    Lebanese President Michel Aoun, a Hezbollah ally, told ambassadors to Lebanon that Saudi Arabia had kidnapped Hariri, a senior Lebanese official said. On Friday, France said it wanted Hariri to have "all his freedom of movement."

    In his speech, Hariri said he feared assassination and accused Iran and Hezbollah of sowing strife in the region. He said the Arab world would "cut off the hands that wickedly extend to it," language which one source close to him said was not typical of the Lebanese leader.

    Hariri's resignation came as more than 200 people, including 11 Saudi princes, current and former ministers and tycoons, were arrested in an anti-corruption purge in Saudi Arabia.

    Initially there was speculation Hariri was a target of that campaign because of his family's business interests. But sources close to the Lebanese leader said his forced resignation was motivated by Saudi efforts to counter Iran.

    Hariri was taken to meet the Saudi king after his resignation. Footage was aired on Saudi TV. He was then flown to Abu Dhabi to meet Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed, the Saudi crown prince's main regional ally. He returned to Riyadh and has since received Western ambassadors.

    Sources close to Hariri said the Saudis, while keeping Hariri under house arrest, were trying to orchestrate a change of leadership in Hariri's Future Movement by installing his elder brother Bahaa, who was overlooked for the top job when their father was killed. The two have been at odds for years.

    In a statement, the Future Movement said it stood fully behind Hariri as its leader. Hariri aide and Interior Minister Nohad Machnouk dismissed the idea Bahaa was being positioned to replace his brother: "We are not herds of sheep or a plot of land whose ownership can be moved from one person to another. In Lebanon things happen though elections not pledges of allegiances."

    Family members, aides and politicians who have contacted Hariri in Riyadh say he is apprehensive and reluctant to say anything beyond "I am fine." Asked if he is coming back, they say his normal answer is: "Inshallah" (God willing).
  10. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  11. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    Russia is going to work with Iran and Turkey to boot us out of everywhere. Probably while also ratcheting up complications with Saudi Arabia. The region has changed forever.
  12. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  13. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  14. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    Weird to see her say this, Obama's envoy to the UN. She was almost as ridiculous acting as Nikki Haley.

  15. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

    Post Count:
    Not really that weird is it? She no longer has the job so she is under no obligation to toe the party/country line. She's clear to actually say what she thinks.
  16. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    Time is strange.

    Michael Aoun

    President of Lebanon. He was elected president on 31 October 2016 on the 46th electoral session of the Lebanese parliament, breaking a 29-month deadlock. He is a Maronite Christian and the founder of the Free Patriotic Movement.

    Michel Aoun was appointed as Lebanese Army General in 1984. From 22 September 1988 to 13 October 1990, Aoun served as Prime Minister after being appointed by the then departing Lebanese President Amine Gemayel as head of the Lebanese government and interim prime minister. The controversial decision saw the rise of two rival governments contending for power at that time, one by General Aoun and the other by prime minister Selim Hoss.

    Aoun declared a "War of Liberation" against Syrian army forces on 14 March 1989. On 13 October 1990, the Syrian forces invaded Aoun strongholds including the presidential palace in Baabda, killing hundreds of Lebanese soldiers and civilians. Aoun fled to the French Embassy in Beirut, and was later granted asylum in France where he lived in exile for 15 years from 1990 to 2005.

    Aoun returned to Lebanon on 7 May 2005, eleven days after the withdrawal of Syrian troops from the country. In 2006, as head of the Free Patriotic Movement (FPM), he signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Hezbollah, starting a major alliance that has remained ever since. Despite the bloody history with the regime of Hafez al-Assad, father of Bashar al-Assad, Aoun visited Syria in 2009.[2][3]

    Aoun was elected a Member of Parliament where he headed the Free Patriotic Movement and the broader parliamentary coalition called Reform and Change Bloc, which had 27 representatives making it the second biggest bloc in the Lebanese parliament. He presented his candidacy for presidential election with main rival candidates being Samir Geagea, Suleiman Frangieh and Henri Helou. After his election, he was sworn in as President of Lebanon in succession to President Michel Suleiman.

    Saad Hariri: Saudis detaining Lebanon PM says Michel Aoun

    Lebanon's President Michel Aoun has for the first time publicly accused Saudi Arabia of detaining its prime minister, who resigned unexpectedly during a visit to Riyadh on 4 November.

    Mr Aoun said "nothing justified" Saad Hariri's continued absence, and that it was a breach of his human rights.

    He added that he considered it an "act of aggression" against Lebanon.

    For his part, Mr Hariri once again insisted on Twitter that he would soon return to Lebanon and that he was fine.

    French President Emmanuel Macron later "invited" Mr Hariri and his family to France, after speaking by telephone to the prime minister and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the Elysee Palace said in a statement.

    Sources within the palace say Mr Hariri will arrive in France "in the coming days".

    On Sunday night, Mr Hariri said in a television interview that he was free to leave Saudi Arabia and that he had left Lebanon in order to protect himself.

    The Saudi government has denied holding him against his will or putting pressure on him to resign in an attempt to curb the influence of its regional rival, Iran.

    The Shia Islamist Hezbollah movement, an Iranian proxy that Riyadh considers a terrorist group, is part of the unity government that Mr Hariri formed last year.

    "Nothing justifies the failure of Prime Minister Hariri to return for 12 days. Therefore, we consider him to be held and detained, in violation of the Vienna Convention and human rights law," President Aoun's official Twitter account quoted him as saying.

    "No decision can be made on a resignation from abroad," he added. "He should return to Lebanon to present his resignation or withdraw it, or to discuss the reasons for it and how to address them."

    "We cannot wait longer and lose time. Affairs of state cannot be stopped."

    Mr Aoun is a Maronite Christian former army commander who is an ally of the Islamist militia and political party Hezbollah.

    He made the comments at a meeting with journalists and media executives.

    "This affects the dignity of all Lebanese," he said, according to several Lebanese media outlets. "Hariri and his family are restricted in freedom of movement and are under surveillance."

    Mr Hariri responded swiftly to the president's comments, writing on Twitter: "I want to repeat and affirm that I am perfectly fine and I will return, God willing, to dear Lebanon as I promised you, you'll see."

    A member of Mr Hariri's political party, the Future Movement, also told Reuters news agency that the prime minister and his family were not being detained.

    The BBC's Martin Patience in Beirut says Mr Aoun was merely saying what many senior Lebanese officials have expressed privately. But, our correspondent adds, the fact the president has gone public shows that he feels he has got little to lose.

    Mr Aoun had previously only questioned the "mysterious" circumstances of Mr Hariri's resignation, which was made in a televised address from the Saudi capital.

    Mr Hariri accused Iran of sowing "discord, devastation and destruction" in the region and said he sensed there was an assassination plot against him.

    His father Rafik - himself a former Lebanese prime minister - was killed in a suicide bombing in Beirut in 2005. Several members of Hezbollah are being tried in absentia at a UN-backed tribunal at The Hague in connection with the attack, though the group has denied any involvement.

    Mr Hariri, a Sunni Muslim who became prime minister for the second time in late 2016 in a political compromise deal that also saw Mr Aoun elected president, has close ties to Saudi Arabia.

    His father made his fortune in the Gulf kingdom and he owns properties there. He also holds both Lebanese and Saudi citizenship, and Riyadh backs his party.
  17. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
  18. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:
    So the SDF's spokesman was a Turkish agent and just defected to Turkey, SDF are the mainly Kurdish YPG(PKK) coalition that the United States has supported in Syria.


    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 8:20 PM
  19. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:

  20. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

    Post Count:


    SAUDI CROWN Prince Mohammad bin Salman attends the Future Investment Initiative conference in Riyadh last week. (photo credit:HAMAD I MOHAMMED / REUTERS)

    RIYADH - Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Adel Jubeir said on Thursday the kingdom's actions in the Middle East were a response to what he called Iranian aggression, and hinted at future action against Lebanon's Hezbollah.

    Long-standing arch-rivals, Riyadh and Tehran are waging a contest for power on several fronts across the region, notably in Yemen and Lebanon.

    "(The Iranians) are the ones who are acting in an aggressive manner. We are reacting to that aggression and saying: 'Enough is enough. We’re not going to let you do this anymore'," Jubeir told Reuters in an interview.

    He said Saudi Arabia was consulting its allies about what leverage to use against Lebanese Shi'ite group Hezbollah — an Iranian ally — to end its dominance in the small Mediterranean nation and intervention in other countries.

    "We will make the decision when the time comes," he said, declining to detail what options were under consideration.

    Saudi Arabia accused Lebanon last week of declaring war against it because of acts by Hezbollah, which is both a militant and political organization represented in Lebanon's parliament and government.

    Jubeir said Hezbollah, which he described as a subsidiary of Iran's Revolutionary Guard "doing Iran's bidding," must disarm for Lebanon to stabilize.

    "Wherever we see a problem, we see Hezbollah act as an arm or agent of Iran and this has to come to an end," he said.

    Jubeir said Iran had harbored terrorists, assassinated diplomats and interfered in other countries' affairs - charges Tehran denies.

    "If you want us to deal with you as a good neighbor, act like one. But if you continue to act in an aggressive manner, we will push back," he said.


    Since Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman rose to power less than three years ago, Riyadh has struck a more aggressive posture towards Iran, launching a war in Yemen, leading a boycott of neighboring Qatar in part for allegedly cozying up to Tehran, and ratcheting up its rhetoric against Hezbollah.

    Saad al-Hariri, a Saudi ally, resigned as Lebanon's prime minister on Nov. 4, citing an assassination plot and accusing Iran and Hezbollah of sowing strife in the region.

    Lebanese officials say Hariri had come under pressure from Riyadh, which they accuse of holding him captive despite his denials. Hariri said on Thursday he would visit Paris "very soon" and is expected to then return to Lebanon.

    Jubeir repeated Saudi denials that Riyadh had forced Hariri to resign or held him against his will. "He's a free man, he can do whatever he wants," Jubeir said.

    Asked if Saudi wanted Hariri to withdraw his resignation, Jubeir said: "That is his decision to make."

    Saudi's top diplomat said reigning in Hezbollah was the priority and the "facade" that the group needed to hold on to its weapons should be exposed.

    "If they are to support the resistance, what are they doing in Syria fighting on behalf of the regime alongside the Iranian militias?" he said, referring to President Bashar al-Assad, who is battling rebels backed in part by Saudi Arabia.

    "If they are there to protect Lebanon, what are they doing in Yemen?"


    Saudi Arabia is backing Yemen's internationally recognized government against the Iran-aligned Houthi movement in a 2-1/2 year-old war. The kingdom has been criticized for killing civilians in airstrikes there and blocking humanitarian aid.

    Jubeir accused the Houthis, who control much of the country's north, of besieging civilian areas and preventing supplies from coming in or out.

    A military coalition led by the kingdom has enforced a near-blockade on Yemen, which aid agencies say has contributed to unleashing famine and disease on the already impoverished country.

    It closed all air, land and sea access on Nov. 6 following the interception of a missile fired towards Riyadh.

    Saudi Arabia has since said that aid can go through "liberated ports" but not Houthi-controlled Hodeidah, the conduit for the vast bulk of imports into Yemen.

    Jubeir said the ports of Aden, Mokha and Midi along with Aden airport had resumed operations.

    The heads of three UN agencies on Thursday warned "untold thousands" would die if the blockade stayed in place.

    Jubeir also said domestic anti-corruption investigations which have netted senior Saudi princes, officials and businessmen in the past two weeks were ongoing. He rejected as "nonsense" criticisms the campaign fell foul of the law.

    "Those who are guilty are likely to be referred to the courts and they will have fair, transparent trials," he said.