Not sure if MMORPGs is still a thing for TzT

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TulionKT, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. TulionKT

    TulionKT Spamaton Will Rise Again

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  2. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    After Shadowbane I'm superwary of PvP MMO hype, but the engine at least looks much better than the Shadowbane closed-beta. I wonder if off-the-shelf 3D engines are flexible enough to do open-world MMOs now, that would explain it.
     
  3. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Shit is about 2 years late, I semi-forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me (as I was a backer). Maybe I'll install it and see how it's looking.
     
  4. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Sounds like it is still in either pre-alpha or alpha, so I'll continue waiting.

    I had my eye on this one years ago but had also forgotten about it. I know these ambitious persistent-service games (i.e., MMOs) need some money coming in to keep them afloat, but sometimes I wish that Public Early Access wasn't a thing. Star Citizen has been in a "playable alpha" state for the past five years.
     
  5. Arogarn

    Arogarn TZT Neckbeard

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    Pantheon costs $250 to get into the alpha.
     
  6. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm totally okay w/early access shit, but I wish there were either an accurately adhered to ranking system (beta or even alpha in some games, are fully playable and enjoyable, while some full release games are unplayable on release), or companies just did away with that shit altogether, and had some tester write up an honest summary. (Like, mechanics are all in, graphics are full of placeholders, no campaigns yet, economy completely unbalanced, weapons finalized, etc.)

    But yeah, that'll never happen lol.
     
  7. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    holy fuck brad
     
  8. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    cocaine inflation brah

    big brad gotta get his
     
  9. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    Gamers are more affluent these days. If gamers can somehow afford $500 for a mid-range GPU enabler, $250 for the virtual crack seems positively cheap.

    Not to diss on this MMO, because I know nothing about it, but MMOs are rly extreme these days. I considered getting back into DDO (still best ORPG imo), but apparently you need years of grinding and $200+ worth of digital purchases to not be a gimp. The MMO market has gotten legit scary, apparently run by cynical bean counters. It makes you wonder if anybody actually develops an MMO to be fun anymore? Everything is just virtual loot & advancement. It was supposed to be an adventure :-(

    I would easily pay twice as much for a great experience than what they are likely to squeeze out of me with a mediocre treadmill. In that sense buying a game outright for $250 is preferable I guess.
     
  10. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    My own cynical take:

    The classic MMO progression since UO to WoW era is sortof dead. Meaning, continuously evolving MMOs with improved graphics, bigger worlds, more elaborate mechanics, etc. each generation. I think that shit is capped out. It takes an *enormous* amount of work to create an MMO like that, not just to get it launched, but the upkeep, ongoing development, fighting hackers/exploits, keeping people interested, providing support. I mean if you have that kind of talent and manpower in-house, you can shit out some crappy mobile apps or multiplayer FPS games or a battle royal clone #23408295 and make a lot more money w/a lot less effort.

    The pay-to-win model has triumphed because there are fucking too many morons who happily pay for virtual currency. If you want to make a pay-once or pay-via-flat-monthly-subscription game w/no in-game purchases to supplement, you basically are committing to developing a game for less money than you could actually make. It basically has to be a labor of love - and people aren't going to do that shit for a AAA level effort/title.

    I think the same goes for even massively scoped single-player RPGs with lots of graphics/production value. You'll get very rare companies like Larian or CDProjekctRed that can still pull it off, but that's a vanishing breed. That said, I don't think all hope is lost... you can still create games of great scope and detail w/out a lot of money, but you'll have to give up on the uber graphics and sound and shit. The indie game space has endless potential here imo.
     
  11. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    >Quality pvp games on the market with item loot
    >Tzt lol omg twitch based is lame I'm old
    >Quality skill driven pvp mmo
    >Lol it's feeds you items it's 2 ez
    >Backs shit tier vaporware with a population of 30 people
     
  12. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    I can't wait for all of you to shit on pantheon because it's a 9 hour grindfest for a piece of armor. Meanwhile the turbosocks are gonna get a gear gap and shit all over you in pvp.
     
  13. Velox

    Velox TZT Abuser

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    I think Utumno's cynical assessment is pretty spot on, with the addition that casuals seem to have gotten bored by MMOs, and that is why they are mainly catering to the hamster-wheel people now. Pretty sure the proportion of new players to MMO veterans is very different now compared to 10-15 years ago. Shallow, repetitive quests and shitty gameplay has become a self-fulfilling prophecy for MMOs. Most people who wanted quality over quantity have given up on the genre. It's sad, because while it initially started out as technical limitations, I suspect MMO's don't really need to have shitty gameplay these days.

    I don't rly care as much about a bit of pay2win though, because I don't take competing in MMORPGs too seriously. It's important that balance isn't so bad it destroys my gameplay experience though. I actually prefer heavy pay2win than heavy grind2win, because like many adults I have more money than time.

    I can't stress how important good gameplay is though, story + gameplay + socializing are the only reasons I play games. I couldn't care less about "loot score".
     
  14. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Agree w/ this. The current state of MMO design is utterly stagnant.

    Scale & budget requirements makes the barrier to entry steep for non-AAA studios, but part of the reason that barrier exists is because studios insist on building "WoW With ______" clones. So their project scope is, at bare minimum, the same as early WoW. Which is massive.

    What needs rethinking are all the "RPG" core mechanics that devs hold sacred as formula: 3D action game character movement, high-fidelity visuals, a kitchen sink of ability toolbars for combat, a class system with the same tired Holy Trinity (tank/dps/healer) gameplay, fetch quests, treadmill grinding, aesthetic items for real money, raids, etc.

    That all needs to be stripped down and reconsidered. I think you can make a game where hundreds of players interact with eachother in the same world without any of that.

    The other game that gets copied endlessly now (Minecraft) worked because it was essentially a MMO with an original visual style where you play with legos. The concept was new and simple.

    TLDR: there's a big difference between staring at WoW for inspiration and starting with a blank canvas where "lots of players interacting in the same world" is the only requirement.
     
  15. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    there have been interesting ideas for MMOs

    they've all just become jokes :(
     
  16. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Kinda makes you appreciate EQ more when you realize that it had just a 3-year dev cycle back before any real 3D tools/engines/knowledge existed.

    Meridian 59 provided a loose template, but I think most of that game was created with ideas inspired by pen-and-paper D&D and text MUDs.
     
  17. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Which ones? I'm hard-pressed to think of many that really stepped outside of convention.
     
  18. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Had a few in mind, but want to think a bit. Will outline them later
     
  19. Mern is Best

    Mern is Best TZT Addict

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    Eve online

    Edit- it's not a joke, but its definitely different and not cast from the typical MMO mold
     
  20. LiasTZ

    LiasTZ TZT Veteran

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    Not quite an MMO, but I'm digging Escape from Tarkov.