Exclusive: First charges filed in Mueller investigation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jackpanel, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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  2. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    Sessions is going to be indicted.

    Seth Abrahmson on twitter: I want to be clear on something: Sessions responding to questions about Russian contacts by reading a prepared statement means he thinks he's going to be prosecuted. This is what a witness does to avoid speaking off the cuff in a way that can be used against them in court.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  3. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    Highlights:

    Sessions: "Why aren't you taking my answer?"

    Swalwell: "We're on the third edition, Senator."




    "You understand sir, I get to ask the questions. You're no longer in the US Senate."



    "I did, uh, vote to impeach [Clinton], yes--" "You voted to remove him, actually, impeachment's in the House."

     
  4. Kilinitic

    Kilinitic 6,000 feet beyond man and time

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    Sorry but doing whatever the fuck you can for publicity + money + fame with no regard to decency/laws/people/truth IS basically ruthless selfish capitalism in essence. im not trying to suggest its OK--i think its terrible + stupid-- but I will argue that its pretty much SOP for most if not all powerful organization in the world.

    Those news reports about wikileaks alone do not clearly substantiate that wikileaks was a knowing actor in a scheme led by russia to fuck the US. I'm not saying they weren't a pawn, that they didn't act to fuck the US, or even that they didn't do so knowingly. I believe that at least two of those things are quite likely to be true. But, the news articles posted here do not clearly demonstrate the knowing intent by WL to take part in a conspiracy led by russia to destabilize the US. It substantiates some pieces of that--- WL acted in ways to try and get donny T to do things that would destabilize the US. Sure. However, it doesn't suggest that their intentions were to further the agenda of a foreign government, nor does it suggest that they knowingly collaborated with russia. it does not suggest that WLs had a reciprocal collaborative relationship with russia. Thinking that is necessarily the case is a misunderstanding of the entire organizational structure of wikileaks and their mode of operation.

    If you think that WLs is a russian pawn thats absolutely fine, cool. if it came out that they were a russian pawn since conception I'd be a little surprised at this point, but its not something that I discount as a possibility. But concluding that the articles that czer posted clearly demonstrate that can only be done via a very uncritical (and ridiculous) analysis of the information contained within them. Otherwise, the only argument is: there should be a lower threshold for 'evidence' to substantiate a claim and accept it as fact, but that is far more dangerous and irrational.

    I don't even get what people say about WLs since the election: even if they knew the emails were given to them by Russia and understand russias intentions, isn't it basically against their stated aims and goals to not still publish them (so long as they can verify the authenticity)? Ignoring the fact that their entire organization is supposedly about 'forcing radical transparency of big organizations' do you really think they shouldn't have posted them because of who mightve leaked it to them? There is more evidence (still, weak evidence though) of collusion between the DNC and clinton campaign within those leaked emails than there is evidence of WLs colluding with russia from the articles czer posted. So long as those leaked emails are authentic I see nothing wrong with WL publishing them aside from the fact that they milked it for PR--an honest WL would just release leaks immediately upon being verified. But even still, WL has always openly stated that they time and "market" their published leaks to garner a maximum impact. Previous wikileaks regarding the war on terror, etc, have contributed substantially to waking up americans to the reality that their govt operates with a similar level of corruptness and lack of altruism as other nations. Even if they were all a part of russian machinations to undermine the faith of the public in the US govt, I think that it is good they were leaked so long as they are genuine and I strongly believe the US people should pay more attention to, and have less faith in, their elected officials.

    You misunderstood me-- I am disappointed in myself for not having a more cynical attitude towards WL before this news story broke. Not disappointed in WL in the sense that I feel they let me down, I'm too jaded for that. I'm disappointed for not expecting them to be most interested in self service at the expense of making a real significant difference in the world wrt transparency.
     
  5. CanadaEQ

    CanadaEQ TZT Neckbeard

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    I mean, if all you’ve read about WLs is what has posted in TZT, then I would suggest reading more before writing an essay on it.

    I honestly don’t understand why you bring up capitalism? You seem to be making some pretty strange assumptions about WLs motives.
     
  6. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    Assange would happily watch half the world burn if it meant he could come out looking like some anti-establishment badass. News@11
     
  7. CanadaEQ

    CanadaEQ TZT Neckbeard

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    Like all the US intelligence agencies say WLs is shit. The Trump appointed director of the CIA has labelled them as a hostile foreign agent. The time to debate what WLs is about is in the past.
     
  8. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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  9. Kilinitic

    Kilinitic 6,000 feet beyond man and time

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    What? You said that the specific news report about WL communicating with trump was the nail in the coffin that showed WL is undoubtedly an anti American operation. I responded that the specific news report did not in any way clearly show that. I never stated that all I've read about WLs is from tzt, nor did I rule out that other news reports show conclusively that WLs is a Russian led outfit. You seem to be talking right past me.

    Me bringing up the capitalism thing was weird and I guess I failed to get my point across, but I only meant that WLs is primarily a vehicle to further self interests like most big organizations. I didn't mean to suggest I misunderstood the basic structure of WL and thought they were a corporation with a product they were selling, or anything. Just that there agenda certainly isn't entirely altruistic. I'm a little confused what "strange assumptions" you think I've made? I said that WLs is self serving, and that they have a publicly stated aim to further govt transparency.
     
  10. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    I think Glenn Greenwald more closely aligns with what you believe WL might be.
     
  11. Kilinitic

    Kilinitic 6,000 feet beyond man and time

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    For the record, though, since my last post I did read up more on Wikileaks election reporting, and intelligence reports implicating WL as foreign govt agents, and i agree it certainly makes WL look real shitty and suspect. but my original post was regarding the specific trumpjr pms event and that they don't clearly show WLs as a foreign govt agent. Even in the context of other news reports about WL, this story hardly seems like the "nail in the coffin" and doesn't seem nearly as damning as previous US intelligence reports, for instance, so i still don't really understand why this 1 is the big unmasking.
     
  12. Kilinitic

    Kilinitic 6,000 feet beyond man and time

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    I think Glenn greenwald does a mostly good job and have liked him more than WL.
     
  13. Sifter

    Sifter TZT Addict

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    Pretty good (old) article on WL's stated purpose. Maybe you guys have already read it. For the record, I think it is noble:
    "a strategy for how exposing secrets will ultimately impede the production of future secrets. The point of Wikileaks — as Assange argues — is simply to make Wikileaks unnecessary."

    But I don't see how recent actions like encouraging Trump to contest the election if he loses, floating harmful conspiracy theories to Sean Hannity, etc help further that goal. It seems like de-stabilizing the US and ending US hegemony is as big of a goal of WL as anything else.

    Can we get @Astitious in this thread.
     
  14. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    Yeah, no he's way to focused on just the United States and specifically Hillary.

    It could just be a hatred, but either way that would make him an unwitting agent.
     
  15. Utumno

    Utumno Administrator Staff Member

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    yes this. i think GG is still a bit of a self-righteous blowhard but i believe a well-meaning and honest one.
     
  16. Astitious

    Astitious Existential Detective

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    I think Julian Assange is a human being who has been trapped in an embassy because of bogus charges and was possibly threatened with drone assassination. I don't fault him for wanting revenge against the US. I don't think he is a Russian puppet or that he likes Trump. I think he just wants to get even with a group of people that have fooled those that traditionally supported Wikileaks into thinking he was some kind of rapist working for the enemy.

    I support transparency but I have always viewed Assange as someone out for attention, but that just makes him as detestable as most politicians. Fortunately Assange isn't in the employ of the bombers or bankers, so that makes him not evil.

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/...ctively-edits-to-smear-wikileaks-65ecd7c2468f
     
  17. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    Hahaha there it is
     
  18. Agrul

    Agrul TZT Neckbeard Lord

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  19. Red

    Red TZT Neckbeard

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    Good ol Asti fighting the good fight as long as the mean ol bankers go down
     
  20. CanadaEQ

    CanadaEQ TZT Neckbeard

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    I may be mistaken but ‘nail in the coffin’ is synonymous with ‘the last straw’ meaning that piece of evidence fits within a larger body of evidence.

    Since WLs is a very topical subject I thought you would have known communication between WLs and the Trump Campaign was an extremely important contextual link.

    I wasn’t talking past you, I was talking to someone who was downplaying a significant development that Trump and co have flatly denied and lied about.