Cathy Newman interviews Jordan Peterson

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vlaara, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    Saw this blowing up over various parts of the internet, and after seeing so many "analyses" of the interaction I decided to watch it.

    original video



    As much as I don't want to like Jordan, probably mostly bc his fanbois (kinda my same issue with Nietzsche) and partially because of my own ego, I can't help but like him. He would benefit from some warrior training IMO, but overall he's been a good spokesperson. I think somewhere someone referred to him as the "poor man's intellectual" or something to that effect and I agree with that sentiment.

    So if you bother to watch the actual video (instead of what your favorite talking head told you about it + clips out of context) it is a pretty fucking cringe interview.

    Response in favor of Newman:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-peterson-metoo-backlash-latest-a8170031.html

    Now I'm more than willing to accept the grain of truth in that narrative, and I can understand why Jordan Peterson attracts some of the people he does - but he also attracts normal and reasonable people. Even this article is rife with fallacies, and the portrayal is largely the reason why I abandoned the left. I haven't quite joined the right yet, but I also don't mind being lumped in with Trump supporters - I at least understand and trust them in the same way I trust a scorpion. Which isn't exactly a fair portrayal --> since what I mean in general is I know who and what they are and I am less sure about the left, the people who are presumably my allies.

    He also supported this with examples, he didn't just claim it. Just one of many little snipes in there.

    yes, a cartoon villain. ::facepalm::

    If you want to find analyses and videos in favor of Peterson -- guys like Sargon of Akkad and a plethora of others have made videos.
     
  2. Ssalam

    Ssalam TZT Abuser

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    Short version for those who don't want to watch:

    Peterson: Red Apples are typically sweeter than Green Apples
    Newman: So you hate Green Apples
    Peterson: I am just saying Red Apples are typically sweeter
    Newman: So what your saying is that Red Apples can't be sour
     
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  3. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    I agree with that, his argument was sound.

    Warrior training is for people who are not intelligent enough to use cunning. Now get both and get back to me.
     
  4. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    I'd argue that point a little differently, that cunning is the province of those who aren't strong enough to be warriors. I will concede that it has its uses, and can be extremely effective.

    Also I'm both stronger and more cunning and smarter and more handsomer buuuuuttt....

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    Also:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    well idk, I guess u r prettier than me.
     
  7. Czer

    Czer I'm a poor person. The lambo is my cousin's.

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    listen, I was gifted the beard of a dwarven warrior, so you are incorrect
     
  8. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    yeah but u still have that baby face underneath that the beard can't hide.
     
  9. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    That woman was incredibly annoying. She basically just accused him of a bunch of bigoted shit, and was completely unprepared to deal with his explanations.

    The two important questions that I wished she focused on rather than being sensationalist are:

    A) To what extent is focusing on differences such as conscientiousness and agreeableness a red herring? Peterson makes no mention of effect size and talks about it as though it is responsible for a huge amount of the variance (it is not).

    B) One thing, to her credit she tried to bring but didn't pursue, how much does it matter even if gender differences do exist? It's possible that changing leadership structures, or other engrained mechanisms of workplace culture, may diminish the impact that "agreeableness" or "conscientiousness" may have in work environments. Suggesting that a certain personality trait is important to success in a certain realm doesn't automatically validate the idea that it must be, or that it should be.
     
  10. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    Oops, don't know how to TZT
     
  11. Ssalam

    Ssalam TZT Abuser

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    Is that how we're liking our own posts these days?
     
  12. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    Didn't know who this guy was before the thread, but he comes across as reasonable (moreso than the interviewer). I think that Independent write-up is too hyperbolic to be taken seriously.

    I do feel like it'd be easy to fanboy for him just out of confirmation bias as a male, though. I'm sure his alt-right fanboys are awful.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  13. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    Yeah there were definitely good counter arguments to be made - while this is likely the benefit of hindsight I feel like I could have made better arguments for feminism and argued about and against the patriarchal structure better than she did.

    I recognize a man claiming he could argue feminism better than a woman could seems problematic but I don’t think I could do it better than any woman - just this one.

    Or if given another chance could she do better? I would certainly hope so, but it seems like she could strength her position by abandoning certain stances and shoring up others. I do think a more feminine corporate structure could be beneficial and I bet they exist already to reasonable success.
     
  14. Sear

    Sear TZT Neckbeard Lord

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    also, they need to bang

    she's got that lack of agreeableness & career ambition that he values

    he's got that hot clinical psychologist empathy

    I think they can make it work
     
  15. Ssalam

    Ssalam TZT Abuser

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    So what you're saying is that men can argue better than women?
     
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  16. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    No it doesn't. Lots of women are stupid/ignorant about "feminism"/buy into the patriarchy as well. I'm pretty sure certain segments of Third Wave feminism are just women largely subscribing to patriarchal values and re-branding their obsession as "empowerment" because it's a "choice" (e.g. it's "empowering" when Beyonce shows off her ass in music videos because it's a "choice", and we don't have to think about how that messaging impacts 13 year old girls watching it).
     
  17. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    I don't disagree with anything u said there, but I can't quite figure out what exactly u r responding to here, r u saying no it doesn't seem problematic?
     
  18. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    No, it doesn't seem problematic. You can have better ideas about feminism than lots of women, as lots of women have terrible ideas about feminism.
     
  19. Kanmuk_Sealclubber

    Kanmuk_Sealclubber Yes

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    And because you are brilliant, of course.
     
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  20. Vlaara

    Vlaara Maaruk the Mighty

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    Well, someone's posting has markedly improved.I don't know what it is 'muk but your posting is ON FUCKING point today.